Word Count

Writers Talk About Writing

Neither Regions: Using "Nor" or Not

Neither you nor I set the "rules" of English; we do it together, by using words in certain ways. But we do learn certain "rules," and we can either remember them, forget them, or ignore them.

For example, most of us learned that "neither" and "nor" were a pair, like Lucy and Ricky, or peanut butter and jelly. They are used to indicate a negative about two things: "I have neither peanut butter nor jelly."

But just as Lucy and Ricky split, and peanut butter found chocolate, so "neither" and "nor" can be rent asunder.

But isn't it wrong to say "I have neither peanut butter or jelly"?

Maybe yes, and maybe no.

The authorities disagree on how strict the "neither/nor" rule is. Grammar Girl, Mignon Fogarty, says you must use it, and often: "I like neither hot dogs nor mustard nor ketchup." Just as you need a "nor" before each of the things you don't have, she says, "it would be incorrect to use an 'or' anywhere in that sentence."

Garner's Modern American Usage says that "neither…or" is "either a serious grammatical lapse or a serious typographical error." Yet that usage is at Stage 2 of Garner's five-stage Language-Change Index, meaning the needle has moved from "absolutely never" to "well, you really shouldn't." Once that needle starts moving, it's probably only a matter of time before using "or" will be neither wrong or ridiculed.

Merriam-Webster is less absolutist: "Although use with or is neither archaic nor wrong, neither is usually followed by nor." The American Heritage Dictionary says "nor" is "standard usage."

For now, at least.

But when that negative statement begins with "not" instead of "neither," nearly everyone agrees that it should be followed by "or," not "nor": "I have not peanut butter or jelly."

Now, can "neither" and "either" be used to refer to more than two things, as we've done several times? Same answer: Maybe yes, and maybe no.

Those dueling authorities again: Grammar Girl, as above, says yes; Garner's says no. American Heritage says, "To refer to 'none of several,' none is preferred." But let's let Merriam-Webster have the last word here: "Reference to more than two has been quite common since the 17th century." (To sticklers, of course, just because it's "common" doesn't mean it's "right.")

And as for using "either" to mean "both," as in "we have bushes on either side of our fence," you guessed it: Garner's says it's perfectly idiomatic; American Heritage accepts it fully; but The Associated Press Stylebook says: "Use it to mean one or the other, not both."

So let's see if we have this right: "Neither" should be followed by "nor" in most uses, though it's not totally wrong to use "or," if you believe Merriam-Webster; but when you use the same sentence and just use "not" instead of "neither," it must be "or," never "nor." You should not use "either" or "neither" to refer to more than two things, except when you can; and "either" meaning "both" is (in)correct on either side.

Is it any wonder people get confused?

Speaking of confusion, next week we'll talk about what verbs to use in those "either/neither" constructions. It's either very easy or it's not.


Rate this article:

Click here to read more articles from Word Count.

Merrill Perlman is adjunct assistant professor at the Columbia Graduate School of Journalism and president of Merrill Perlman Consulting, offering consulting and freelance editing services and training in journalism, grammar and usage. Among her clients are The New York Times, ProPublica and the Poynter Institute. She writes the "Language Corner" column and blog for Columbia Journalism Review. Merrill retired in June 2008 after 25 years at The New York Times, most recently as director of copy desks with responsibility for managing 150 copy editors. Click here to read more articles by Merrill Perlman.

Join the conversation

Comments from our users:

Thursday August 22nd 2013, 10:53 AM
Comment by: Ronald K. (Nazareth, PA)
"You can select [ANY] of the above" connotes a group of more than two and "You can select [EITHER] of the above" connotes only a group of two. Furthermore, the latter phrase also seems to direct that only one of the two can be selected. Whereas, the former phrase does not "feel" like this restriction applies.

Do you have a comment?

Share it with the Visual Thesaurus community.

Your comments:

Sign in to post a comment!

We're sorry, you must be a subscriber to comment.

Click here to subscribe today.

Already a subscriber? Click here to login.